Discussion:
quality.wikimedia.org - first look & plans
Erik Moeller
2007-09-10 02:09:08 UTC
Permalink
http://quality.wikimedia.org/

User: Reader
Password: qareader

Do not pass it on quite yet, but please feel free to make basic edits
or layout improvements & do provide feedback here or off-list.

Plan:

1) At least two beta sites will be set up using the FlaggedRevs
extension[1] in two different configurations; these will contain some
English language and some German language demonstration content.
Repeat, DEMONSTRATION CONTENT ONLY. NO REAL WIKIMEDIA PROJECT.

Philipp Birken from WM-DE and I will provide the configuration for
these sites to Brion, who is expected to conclude a security review of
the extension this week.

The page [[Wikiquality]] on Meta will also describe these
configurations, along with some other general info. It is currently
non-existent (do not report).

2) These FlaggedRevs demo sites will go live probably next week. I
suggest a target date of September 20; Sue will finalize this.

Should there be major security or scalability concerns even for a
demo, we can roll back.

3) quality.wikimedia.org: The point is to have portals for major
quality initiatives in Wikipedia and other projects, and an associated
open mailing list. (The list is currently still closed, as it was used
for discussions about FlaggedRevs development.)

These portals should be fairly basic & only point to information
elsewhere. I expect that we will give interested people from the
community & translators access to editing quality.wikimedia.org.
Ironically the site itself would benefit from a FlaggedRevs
configuration, which we may very well put into place if it turns out
to be useful.

Originally I wanted to co-launch this with the beta, but New Scientist
is going to publish a larger piece about Wikimedia quality initiatives
on Thursday, so I thought it would be good to have it up by then,
since it also very visibly suggests making a donation & we don't know
if we might see a bit of a media cascade.

I can quickly fix up some links (link to an off-site demo of
FlaggedRevs for now), open the site & list, and announce them to
various Wikimedia mailing lists before Thursday. If this is _not_
desired, please let me know, and I'll email New Scientist & ask them
to remove the link. But IMHO there is no real risk in going live with
it. Even if we don't take the beta live as expected it'll be a useful
site to have.

4) If there are no remaining security or scalability concerns, after a
declared date, which I suggest to be November 20 (which is also the
middle of the fundraiser and hence a good attention-grabbing moment),
we'll give Wikimedia project/language communities the _option_ of
turning on the extension. To do so, they'll have to point to a
consensus or vote that also explains the configuration they would like
to use (the extension is very flexible).

I expect that de.wp already has such a consensus so they will probably
go live at that date. It may well be possible for en.wp to obtain a
consensus during the beta, in which case it would launch at the same
time. But IMHO the correct answer for press inquiries of "who will be
using the extension" is "this will be determined during the beta, most
likely the German Wikipedia will be among the first".

BugZilla will be used to track these site requests, as was done for
semi-protection.

Once again, the above date will be finalized by Sue.

Comments?

[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FlaggedRevs
--
Toward Peace, Love & Progress:
Erik

DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of
the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.
John Erling Blad
2007-09-10 08:42:49 UTC
Permalink
What about using a smaller language at Wikipedia as a test case? Instead
of having a major language go down because of scalability problems such
a problem can be detected up front. I think it could be possible to have
a go at no.wp for such a test.

Ie., set up a smaller language for a full scale test after the beta test
and before de.wp and en.wp.

John E
Post by Erik Moeller
http://quality.wikimedia.org/
User: Reader
Password: qareader
Do not pass it on quite yet, but please feel free to make basic edits
or layout improvements & do provide feedback here or off-list.
1) At least two beta sites will be set up using the FlaggedRevs
extension[1] in two different configurations; these will contain some
English language and some German language demonstration content.
Repeat, DEMONSTRATION CONTENT ONLY. NO REAL WIKIMEDIA PROJECT.
Philipp Birken from WM-DE and I will provide the configuration for
these sites to Brion, who is expected to conclude a security review of
the extension this week.
The page [[Wikiquality]] on Meta will also describe these
configurations, along with some other general info. It is currently
non-existent (do not report).
2) These FlaggedRevs demo sites will go live probably next week. I
suggest a target date of September 20; Sue will finalize this.
Should there be major security or scalability concerns even for a
demo, we can roll back.
3) quality.wikimedia.org: The point is to have portals for major
quality initiatives in Wikipedia and other projects, and an associated
open mailing list. (The list is currently still closed, as it was used
for discussions about FlaggedRevs development.)
These portals should be fairly basic & only point to information
elsewhere. I expect that we will give interested people from the
community & translators access to editing quality.wikimedia.org.
Ironically the site itself would benefit from a FlaggedRevs
configuration, which we may very well put into place if it turns out
to be useful.
Originally I wanted to co-launch this with the beta, but New Scientist
is going to publish a larger piece about Wikimedia quality initiatives
on Thursday, so I thought it would be good to have it up by then,
since it also very visibly suggests making a donation & we don't know
if we might see a bit of a media cascade.
I can quickly fix up some links (link to an off-site demo of
FlaggedRevs for now), open the site & list, and announce them to
various Wikimedia mailing lists before Thursday. If this is _not_
desired, please let me know, and I'll email New Scientist & ask them
to remove the link. But IMHO there is no real risk in going live with
it. Even if we don't take the beta live as expected it'll be a useful
site to have.
4) If there are no remaining security or scalability concerns, after a
declared date, which I suggest to be November 20 (which is also the
middle of the fundraiser and hence a good attention-grabbing moment),
we'll give Wikimedia project/language communities the _option_ of
turning on the extension. To do so, they'll have to point to a
consensus or vote that also explains the configuration they would like
to use (the extension is very flexible).
I expect that de.wp already has such a consensus so they will probably
go live at that date. It may well be possible for en.wp to obtain a
consensus during the beta, in which case it would launch at the same
time. But IMHO the correct answer for press inquiries of "who will be
using the extension" is "this will be determined during the beta, most
likely the German Wikipedia will be among the first".
BugZilla will be used to track these site requests, as was done for
semi-protection.
Once again, the above date will be finalized by Sue.
Comments?
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FlaggedRevs
Daniel Arnold
2007-09-11 21:09:49 UTC
Permalink
Post by John Erling Blad
What about using a smaller language at Wikipedia as a test case? Instead
of having a major language go down because of scalability problems such
a problem can be detected up front. I think it could be possible to have
a go at no.wp for such a test.
Ie., set up a smaller language for a full scale test after the beta test
and before de.wp and en.wp.
Well. There is a small problem called psychology. de.wp has advocated the
stable version idea for a long time and many design principles were brought
up there first. And I am aware of at least 2 earlier attempts of
de.wikipedians (one by DaB., the toolserver admin) coding such an extension
but they didn't succed because the design principles back then weren't that
good as it is now. These failed attempts did help people coming to the right
ideas. So the de.wikipedians want to be among the first otherwise they'd
be "a bit" upset. ;-)

However it would be certainly very good to go live with two different wikis.
no.wikipedia is probably quite different from de.wikipedia at least in size
(community and content). So we'd know wether and how certain things work out
in different environments.

So:
a) Is there a strong desire in no.wp for this feature?
b) Can you conduct a discussion about that in no.wp? (eg. translating
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Gesichtete_Versionen and
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:GeprÃŒfte_Versionen so that people in
no.wp get an idea what the thing is about at all (and what not ;-).

Arnomane
John Erling Blad
2007-09-11 22:06:00 UTC
Permalink
I guess it is necessary to get de.p up and going quite fast, it will
also be necessary to use de.wp as a showcase to get a go on other wikis.

At no.wp we have been using checked edits for some time together with a
mechanism for automatic checks on a number of users. Together this has a
lot in common with stable versions.

I can post a note at our signpost and perhaps ask someone to translate
the pages.

We have a quite impressive impact in the news industry in Norway, and I
think it will be very interesting to see if they welcome or not the new
system.

John E
Post by Daniel Arnold
Post by John Erling Blad
What about using a smaller language at Wikipedia as a test case? Instead
of having a major language go down because of scalability problems such
a problem can be detected up front. I think it could be possible to have
a go at no.wp for such a test.
Ie., set up a smaller language for a full scale test after the beta test
and before de.wp and en.wp.
Well. There is a small problem called psychology. de.wp has advocated the
stable version idea for a long time and many design principles were brought
up there first. And I am aware of at least 2 earlier attempts of
de.wikipedians (one by DaB., the toolserver admin) coding such an extension
but they didn't succed because the design principles back then weren't that
good as it is now. These failed attempts did help people coming to the right
ideas. So the de.wikipedians want to be among the first otherwise they'd
be "a bit" upset. ;-)
However it would be certainly very good to go live with two different wikis.
no.wikipedia is probably quite different from de.wikipedia at least in size
(community and content). So we'd know wether and how certain things work out
in different environments.
a) Is there a strong desire in no.wp for this feature?
b) Can you conduct a discussion about that in no.wp? (eg. translating
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Gesichtete_Versionen and
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Geprüfte_Versionen so that people in
no.wp get an idea what the thing is about at all (and what not ;-).
Arnomane
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P. Birken
2007-09-10 11:41:38 UTC
Permalink
Crossposting with internal

I"m again on a conference right now and will be back next Saturday, so
starting on 20. September sounds very good. As for the starting date,
I suggest actually doing this sooner. If it turns out that one month
of Beta is sufficient, we should turn on this long-awaited extension.
I don't think it is necessarily bad if the good news of stable
versions first sinks in and after some weeks, we ask perople for
money.

Bye,

Philipp
Post by Erik Moeller
http://quality.wikimedia.org/
User: Reader
Password: qareader
Do not pass it on quite yet, but please feel free to make basic edits
or layout improvements & do provide feedback here or off-list.
1) At least two beta sites will be set up using the FlaggedRevs
extension[1] in two different configurations; these will contain some
English language and some German language demonstration content.
Repeat, DEMONSTRATION CONTENT ONLY. NO REAL WIKIMEDIA PROJECT.
Philipp Birken from WM-DE and I will provide the configuration for
these sites to Brion, who is expected to conclude a security review of
the extension this week.
The page [[Wikiquality]] on Meta will also describe these
configurations, along with some other general info. It is currently
non-existent (do not report).
2) These FlaggedRevs demo sites will go live probably next week. I
suggest a target date of September 20; Sue will finalize this.
Should there be major security or scalability concerns even for a
demo, we can roll back.
3) quality.wikimedia.org: The point is to have portals for major
quality initiatives in Wikipedia and other projects, and an associated
open mailing list. (The list is currently still closed, as it was used
for discussions about FlaggedRevs development.)
These portals should be fairly basic & only point to information
elsewhere. I expect that we will give interested people from the
community & translators access to editing quality.wikimedia.org.
Ironically the site itself would benefit from a FlaggedRevs
configuration, which we may very well put into place if it turns out
to be useful.
Originally I wanted to co-launch this with the beta, but New Scientist
is going to publish a larger piece about Wikimedia quality initiatives
on Thursday, so I thought it would be good to have it up by then,
since it also very visibly suggests making a donation & we don't know
if we might see a bit of a media cascade.
I can quickly fix up some links (link to an off-site demo of
FlaggedRevs for now), open the site & list, and announce them to
various Wikimedia mailing lists before Thursday. If this is _not_
desired, please let me know, and I'll email New Scientist & ask them
to remove the link. But IMHO there is no real risk in going live with
it. Even if we don't take the beta live as expected it'll be a useful
site to have.
4) If there are no remaining security or scalability concerns, after a
declared date, which I suggest to be November 20 (which is also the
middle of the fundraiser and hence a good attention-grabbing moment),
we'll give Wikimedia project/language communities the _option_ of
turning on the extension. To do so, they'll have to point to a
consensus or vote that also explains the configuration they would like
to use (the extension is very flexible).
I expect that de.wp already has such a consensus so they will probably
go live at that date. It may well be possible for en.wp to obtain a
consensus during the beta, in which case it would launch at the same
time. But IMHO the correct answer for press inquiries of "who will be
using the extension" is "this will be determined during the beta, most
likely the German Wikipedia will be among the first".
BugZilla will be used to track these site requests, as was done for
semi-protection.
Once again, the above date will be finalized by Sue.
Comments?
[1] http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FlaggedRevs
--
Erik
DISCLAIMER: This message does not represent an official position of
the Wikimedia Foundation or its Board of Trustees.
_______________________________________________
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